Edwina: Hard Truths about being sent to an "Institution"

In this episode, we meet Edwina, who shares a powerful and deeply personal account of her childhood, beginning when she was taken from her home at the age of nine or ten and placed in the Columbus State School, where she lived for twelve years.  Some of these recollections are difficult, emotional and candid so listeners should be prepared for her unvarnished truth. 

Edwina recalls being transported in a sheriff’s car and suddenly separated from her family, without a clear explanation for why she was institutionalized, other than being described as “slow at school.” Inside the institution, she describes a life that felt “like being in jail”: crowded dormitories with dozens of children, standing outside in line for food regardless of the weather, limited education, and constant loneliness. She remembers crying at night and praying for answers about why she had been sent away. 

The conversation explores the broader history of institutionalization in the United States, when many families were advised by doctors and educators to place children with developmental disabilities in state facilities. 

After leaving the institution at age twenty-one, Edwina eventually found greater independence through LADD, where she learned everyday living skills and moved into community housing, where she still lives and thrives today. 

Transcript

Edwina (00:01)
I had a hard childhood life. I didn't have an easy one. I got put away when I was even those. Nine or 10, mom signed me up with the state like I didn't belong to her. And they took me in a sheriff's car. I was behind the bars in the sheriff's car. I didn't eat a lot of this stuff up there. That's I won't eat rice today, because I ate too much of it up there. I wish I had a big sister to talk to like they got now.

Big sisters, brothers. I wish they had that When I was growing up

Wee

Kate (01:01)
This is Never Fade Away.

an oral history project centering untold stories by and about people with developmental disabilities in Ohio. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the storytellers and not necessarily endorsed or representative of the producers. I am your NeuroSpicy host, Kate Siahan-Rigg, and this podcast is brought to you by LADD, a Cincinnati-based organization grounded in the belief that all people have ability and value.

LADD empowers adults with developmental disabilities to live, work, and connect. Here are some of their stories.

Edwina (01:44)
Never fade away, listen what I say, story's here to stay Never fade away ⁓

Kate (01:54)
This week

on Never Fade Away, we are talking to Edwina. Edwina has received services from LADD for over four decades, but as a child, she was placed in the Columbus State School, now called Columbus Developmental Center. So, Edwina, she lived in this institutional setting from the ages of 10 to 21 amongst a mixed population of people with physical and developmental disabilities. In the 1960s, parents were

kind of encouraged by doctors and educators to place their disabled children in state facilities, essentially just to kind of like give up on them altogether. And also, Edwina was never given a formal diagnosis or even really a reason for her institutionalization other than being what they said was quote, slow at school. You'll hear her talk about it. Today, Edwina shares her experiences in a setting known for overcrowding, understaffing, and

really poor living conditions. She then goes on to tell us about the things she wished she could have changed, the things that she enjoys most today, and the pleasure of independence. Let's take a listen. Edwina, I'm so happy to meet you. I don't think we've met in person before, have we?

Edwina (03:10)
No, I don't think we have.

Kate (03:12)
Well, I'm happy to meet you. I've heard a little bit about you from nice people at Ladd. I hear you're a pretty entertaining person. So why don't you tell me a little bit about your life, Edwina? Well,

Edwina (03:18)
you

My childhood life, it was hard. I had a hard childhood life. I didn't have an easy one. I got put away when I was nine or 10. mom signed me up with the state like I didn't belong to her. And they took me in a sheriff's car. I was behind the bars in a sheriff's car.

Kate (03:39)
And did they tell you why they were putting you in a police car?

Edwina (03:42)
I can't remember. Mom just signed me over to the state, took me to court. I was at home one minute, gone in the next. I spent 12 years up there.

Kate (03:52)
Was that in Columbus?

Edwina (03:54)
Yes, Columbus State, Columbus State Institution.

Kate (03:58)
Can you tell me about what life was like at that school?

Edwina (04:01)
It was like an institution, but it was hard. It's just like being in jail almost. Because you had to stand in line outside waiting for the food. And in all kinds of weather, you had to stand outside to wait to get your food. It's like a cafeteria thing, sort of. Why mostly rice? Mostly rice.

Kate (04:22)
And what kind of food did they give you?

Did your parents tell you why they were sending you there? Ohio was the second state to establish a residential school for people with developmental disabilities and this happened in 1857. It was called the Ohio Asylum for the Education of Idiotic and Imbecile Youth. That's when it opened its doors, 1857. Now it's called the Ohio Developmental Institute. The facility has had a bunch of changes in name over the decades and when Edwina was there it was simply called

Edwina (04:29)
number.

Kate (04:54)
the Columbus State School. In the 1950s and 1960s, parents routinely put their disabled children into institutions on the recommendation of doctors who advocated focusing on the siblings without developmental disabilities. Historically, institutions operated outside of oversight and were designed to basically be places where people were just hidden away. There's one called Orient State, the notorious Orient State Institute, as a matter of fact.

It was part of the Columbus State School and had its facilities upgraded in 1984 to become a prison. Yes, you heard that correctly. They made it nicer when it became a state prison. Meanwhile, Edwina lived back on the main campus.

Edwina (05:39)
I know I was too slow in school. said, surprise is that at LADD She said, I had no business being in a place like that.

Kate (05:47)
whoa has anybody

ever told you that you have a disability of any kind? no so you spent how many years 12 years did you say in that place?

Edwina (05:51)
I can't remember.

Yep, 12 years. I had to sleep in a big dormitory with other people, other kids. It's one big room. We had a little room and we had the bedroom. Everybody slept together, but we had our own bed. It was like one big room.

Kate (06:13)
And did you make any friends while you were there?

Edwina (06:16)
Well, I meant the two little brothers, they cerebral palsy. I meant them. can't remember their names. Michael was one of them. They both had cerebral palsy. They was both brothers. They didn't teach em much. Well, they teach how to write and all this stuff, but nothing fancy about it. I he didn't learn much. No, not really.

Kate (06:27)
was the school like? How were the teachers?

Do you remember any of your teachers?

So tell me like if you had to describe it to somebody like how did you feel while you were living there the whole time? What was it like living there?

Edwina (06:52)
It hurt. It hurt. I cried every night. I said, I asked God, why was I put up here feeling, what did I do wrong?

Kate (07:00)
And did you have anyone to talk to about those feelings?

Edwina (07:02)
Nope, not really. Nobody talked to me Nope, there's my dad. He came up to see me but then my mom told them he hit me so the judge made him stop seeing me. So he was the only one that came up see me. Every weekend, my mom stopped it. It was not easy. It was hard. It was a hard life for my childhood. It was just taken away from me.

Kate (07:07)
Did your parents ever come and visit you?

Edwina, when you first went in there, did your parents sit you down and talk to you about it at all?

Edwina (07:38)
don't think so. They did talk to me about sending me putting me away. She went to the judge and the judge put me in there.

Kate (07:48)
put you in there.

Edwina (07:49)
and a lawyer. Yeah, they stuck me away. Mom just signed me over the state.

Kate (07:55)
Can you remember what a typical day would be like?

Edwina (07:57)
Well, you had to wait for your food all the time. Every day, three times you had to wait for your food to stand in line outside. And a shared room with one big room for the living room and the bedroom and the bathroom. That's all we had and the showers. I think we had laundry facilitated, laundry stuff. This can't, it's hard it's not. See the people who works there, you know.

The residents who were there didn't do much. Watch TV, didn't have to do, went to school, didn't learn much, didn't get to graduate.

Kate (08:39)
What

were the ages of people in the place in Columbus when you were there?

Edwina (08:43)
They'd probably be around like nine or 10, like I was, maybe a little older.

Kate (08:50)
What was the?

Edwina (08:52)
A lot of them was in wheelchairs.

Kate (08:53)
So

people had all kinds of different disabilities is what you're saying in there.

Edwina (08:57)
Right. Some of them walkers, maybe some of them wheelchairs. Like the two brothers, they had cerebral palsy, they was in a wheelchair.

Kate (09:05)
And was it easy to fall asleep at night there?

Edwina (09:08)
I didn't like being up there.

Kate (09:10)
What was the worst thing about being up there?

Edwina (09:13)
Just being in there is the worst thing. Not being at home. Not having nobody come up to see you or write to you. They never wrote to me. Not even a card. ⁓ The residents and the residents lived there.

Kate (09:23)
Who'd you talk to all day?

How did you end up getting out of there?

Edwina (09:31)
Well, when I turned 21, that's when I got out. my mom came up to get me. Back home, I made a big mistake doing, because I wanted to get a TV set. My sister got, Phil's got a TV set, but when I wanted to get one, my mom said no. So that's when I started to leave home, move out. I went to the Star Center up on Harrison Avenue, asking, do they know a place I can go?

Kate (09:38)
And where did you go?

Edwina (10:00)
moved into and they talk about

Kate (10:03)
Okay, so tell me how that all worked out. Founded in 1975, LADD which stands for Living Arrangements for the Developmentally Disabled, opened its first residential location on Victory Parkway, Cincinnati in 1979. Now, LADD was conceived as an educational facility with the idea that the residents would learn to live independently and then move into community-based settings where they could continue to receive support for employment and daily living activities.

Edwina (10:05)
It worked out real good.

Kate (10:32)
Edwina was one of the first residents and has been served by LADD for 46 years, 10 of which were as a resident on Victory Parkway. So when you went to Star Center and LADD, what did you say to them? Like, how did you convince them to take you out and help you move?

Edwina (10:47)
I just told them i wanted uh to move away from, just move out, move away from my mom. That's all, just wanted to leave, get on my own. I've been on my own all my life anyhow, so I'm might as well go to L ladd I had a, I live in House 3. Well, I had my, I had a bedroom, had a living room, kitchen. They teach you how to cook. It was nice, I liked it. I was independent.

Kate (10:57)
What was your first apartment like?

Well, what does being independent mean to you, Edwina?

Edwina (11:15)
Well, it means I do things for myself. That's what it means. Well, when I couldn't do before, couldn't cook when I was at home or that place. Yeah. You had to go to bed at a certain time. had to go to bed early. I wasn't too happy going back home. I wasn't too happy. Didn't want to really go back home. Just when she was treating me, wouldn't let me get a TV set. That kind of hurt.

when she let one of my sisters get one, but she wouldn't let me get one. That kind of hurt. So I finally started moving.

Kate (11:52)
And did you get a TV when you moved into your new place? What do you like to cook, Edwina? You said you like to cook. Tell me what you like to cook.

Edwina (11:54)
Yes, I did.

I know how to do sloppy joes. You get all the brown beef up, then you put the sloppy joes mixed in it. Until it's done, then you take it out and put it on hamburger buns, then you put coleslaw on top of it.

Kate (12:14)
Who taught you to make a sloppy Joe? Amazing. So now you've worked, you've lived with Ladd for a long time, right? Did you ever have a job at we know?

Edwina (12:17)
See she

I

worked at Stars Center on Harrison Avenue. Peace work it was called. And I worked up in Columbus, I worked at Goodwill up there. I went to work every day Goodwill. It's like Stars Center, good peace work up in Columbus.

Kate (12:47)
Sheltered workshops in the United States began in the 1800s and were initially established to provide jobs for people who were blind. The first known sheltered workshop was established in 1838 at Perkins Institute for the Blind in Massachusetts. The first modern sheltered workshop began at Goodwill Industries in Ohio in October of 1959. And this workshop was certified by the U.S. Department of Labor and was where Edwina went to work in a bus every day.

She was sorting and assembling hardware and other items piece by piece. That's why they call it piecework. The concept of sheltered workshops was pretty positive in earlier eras when people with disabilities were considered unemployable. But some argued that separating people with disabilities from the rest of the workforce made it harder for them to integrate into society. And they questioned the benefits of repetitive and monotonous tasks for low pay.

Sheltered workshops are still operational and many are now transforming their working models from within. What's piecework? Explain piecework to me.

Edwina (13:49)
They pay you by whatever you... They pay you by the piece you do. Like screws or something, you put screws together, you get paid by piece work. I liked it. I worked with other people and went to work every day. Came home, came back to the institution. Wow. Had to ride the bus to work, back and forth to work.

Kate (13:59)
And did you like your job? Yeah I liked it.

So how old were you when you were doing this piece work?

Edwina (14:17)
Man, I was 15 maybe. I started working when was either 16 or 15 or 16 when I started working.

Kate (14:25)
And you said it was pieces you were putting things together, right? Did you get paid?

Edwina (14:28)
We're all something thing together.

By a piece. How much? guess around $20 maybe, maybe more. I don't know. I can't remember.

Kate (14:40)
$20 for a piece or $20 for a day?

Edwina (14:42)
Piece work, don't know. I don't know how they, I forgot how they paid you. I can't remember.

Kate (14:50)
piecework, whether it's sorting buttons or assembling boxes, is paid by the piece. And under section 14c of the Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938, an employer can pay sub-minimum wages, yes that's right, sub-minimum wages to workers with disabilities. That statute is still in place as of this taping. So even though Edwina and her colleagues at the sheltered workshops got to keep their money,

They would be making well below minimum wages and take home, you know, just a few dollars for a full day's work. Because I really would love to know more about your life at the institution.

Edwina (15:32)
You had to take a shower by yourself. mean, didn't have nobody in there with you. We had chores to do, We had stuff like that to do. I guess keep your room clean, I guess. I didn't like being there. I ran away from the place. So when they caught you, they put you in this room like a prison, like a...

Kate (15:43)
what kind of chores did you have to do?

Edwina (15:54)
It's like a door with a closing on you and you're in this room for so many hours. It's like a cell or something they put you in there by yourself. Yeah solitary and they lock the door behind you.

Kate (16:04)
A solitary cell.

How long did you stay in that solitary cell?

Edwina (16:12)
Probably for couple hours, probably. I don't know. Maybe a day, maybe.

Kate (16:18)
How many times did you try to run away, Edwina?

Edwina (16:20)
They just made a plan a bunch of us didn't took off. So what to the houses across the street. We didn't get very far. Just trying to get away from the place. We had we had security guards up there. It's like security guard like we like you got in prison. That's what it felt like.

Kate (16:23)
took off where?

Did you ever see anybody getting hit in the institution?

Edwina (16:43)
Probably, I don't know, I can't remember. I never got hit. It was really hard being in a place like that. I can't describe it. It's just too hard.

Kate (16:54)
Okay, okay. Now that you're living independently, what are some of the things you love to do or have loved to do?

Edwina (17:01)
Well, I can walk up to Kroger's in High Park. I like doing that. Sissy takes me out. We go out to eat, go to grocery store, go shopping for clothes and stuff like that.

Kate (17:13)
Do you have any family members ⁓ left, like siblings or anything?

Edwina (17:18)
I got, as far as I know, I got Phyllis. She's in another room. I know where she's at. And Ellen, my brother, I don't know where they're at. I don't see them. My sister, Ellen, she's the oldest and Phyllis is the youngest. Me and my brother was like in the middle between them two. That's how I got treated.

Kate (17:40)
what do mean by that?

Edwina (17:43)
Well, I get spoiled. Ellen, I don't know, she had a hard time too. When she got involved in drugs, she got put in Longview State Hospital. But she got out before I did. She was up there for a while because she was on drugs.

Kate (18:04)
Did they ever come and see you while you were in the institution?

Edwina (18:06)
I

tell you no, only my dad did. He my sisters and brothers up there to see me. And he came up, he came up too. stopped, my mom stopped him from seeing me. Because she accused him of hitting me, but he never did lay a hand on me. And that wasn't true. He's the one that came up to see me.

Kate (18:18)
Why did she do that.

Are you still mad at your parents for putting you in there?

Edwina (18:32)
Well, I'm not sadly mad at my sick mom, but it kind of took my childhood life away from me.

Kate (18:40)
I mean, if you could say anything to them now as an adult, what would you say to them?

Edwina (18:45)
I would ask them why did she do it? She would never tell me why. I asked her that and she wouldn't tell me. I felt hurt.

Kate (18:54)
In those days, you able to call them on the phone or did you have to write letters or how did you communicate with your family?

Edwina (19:01)
I never did communicate with them. Never did. She told me when I turned 16, she claimed she bought me stuff up there. She never did. She never said I packed stuff to her or nothing. I only got to go home for my birthday. I was 16. Never got a darn thing from them.

Kate (19:20)
I was going to ask you, did you ever get sent home for holidays or visits or anything?

Edwina (19:25)
So Christmas and summer, that was it. But I only got to spend like two weeks with them. Then I got put back up there. It was fun. I liked it. But it didn't last long. Two weeks don't last very long.

Kate (19:40)
What would happen during those two weeks? Did you feel like a normal family? Yeah.

Edwina (19:44)
I

think so. When I got 10-21, that's when I got out. That was in my 20s.

Kate (19:52)
Well, I'm really glad that you got to get out and live independently. That's pretty awesome. How's your life been since you got out independently? How are you feeling? How's it been?

Edwina (20:01)
It's nice. I like it. I like being out. The place I was in, it's a group home now, just like that is. It's a group home now. It's not, it's just a...

Kate (20:14)
What's it like for you now? What are the fun things you do?

Edwina (20:17)
Well, I retired when I turned 65. retired. I do puzzles, a thousand pieces. I take walks to Hyde Park when it's not so cold out. I do fun things.

Kate (20:22)
Retired from what?

I'm really enjoying getting to know you a little bit and it's really a privilege to hear about something that we don't hear about anymore because a lot of those institutions as you know have closed right and changed

Edwina (20:48)
Mine closed they made it into a group home.

Kate (20:52)
If you had not been sent to an institution, what do you think your childhood would have been like?

Edwina (20:57)
I would have been a lot easier. When I'd be at home, I would have been. I don't know how I would have got treated though. I don't know how she would have treated me. Because Phyllis got spoiled. Ellen, she was the first one born. She probably got spoiled a little bit. Not as as Phyllis did. Well, I could have been.

Kate (21:16)
And were you jealous of your sister?

It's okay to be. I think you deserve it. I think about what you're telling me, going to sleep every night in a big, huge dorm room full of lots of other kids.

Edwina (21:30)
Big doors, you had like walls in between, you call them columns, was in between us.

Kate (21:40)
Were you on bunk beds or single beds? So there's this huge room. It's full of single beds, right? And is it boys and girls or just girls? Just girls. So you've got this huge room.

Edwina (21:42)
Single beds.

Girls.

They had boys in one building and girls in the other building.

Kate (21:58)
And then

you're all told, what time did you think you went to sleep? Do you remember?

Edwina (22:02)
Round, thought of round eight.

Kate (22:04)
⁓ So everybody's in bed at eight o'clock, all different ages, right? All different ages.

Edwina (22:10)
Right.

Some younger than me some older than me.

Kate (22:14)
Some people have physical disabilities like people in wheelchairs. And so you're here. So you're in this huge room with what about 50, 100 people? What do you think? I mean, what do you imagine?

Edwina (22:17)
Yeah, right.

maybe 50 people in that room, or maybe 15 And then we had a big living room where we all hung out.

Kate (22:36)
And all day long you're just hanging out like you're not even are you going to school at all?

Edwina (22:40)
Well, I went to school there for a while until I started working, then I went to Goodwill.

Kate (22:44)
And so now at the age of 15, you're sent out to do piecework, right? So every day, I guess, right after breakfast, you get on a bus.

Edwina (22:48)
All right.

Right. Okay. Downtown, right. And then? We went past a, I know we were on the bus, we went past a prison. Workhouse. We kept prisoners at. A real tall wall. It reminded me something like I was in, because they had a wall, because we had a fence around our place. A fence all the way around.

and has pretty guards there, like a prison would have. That's what it felt like.

Kate (23:26)
How'd you feel in that moment though when you were still running and they hadn't caught you yet?

Edwina (23:31)
Well, good. It good to out. They did take us up camping, and they took us to the circus. Oh, good. We went camping. They won't let everybody go camping, just certain ones. Like me, I went camping. I can't remember where we went camping at, but it was out in Columbus area. We did go to circus in the fall.

Kate (23:46)
Where?

What was that like?

Edwina (24:00)
It was fun seeing animals and stuff like that.

Kate (24:04)
So most of the time though, it was just get on the bus, go to work, come home, eat, go to sleep. Am I missing anything?

Edwina (24:08)
Right.

It's about the same. Watch

TV before we went to bed though, we got to watch TV. So they had one big room and everybody was watching the same thing.

Kate (24:23)
You sound like somebody who likes TV a lot though. So it must have been kind of a trip when your parents wouldn't let you get a TV when you moved back,

Edwina (24:25)
I do.

Right. That's why I decided to move out. If you want to let me get a TV set, that's why I decided to move out. It be just tell you like it was hard. It not a good life. It was hard. It hurt a lot. Like I was mad. I could maybe get some pets up to me. I just didn't like being there. I would have loved to be in my home, but never was. You had to in line and wait for your food. It was cold time you got there. It was cold.

was worth eating. I weighed only 90 pounds. That's all I weighed when I was a kid. 90 pounds. I didn't eat a lot of this stuff up there. It was always cold when we got there. That's why I won't eat rice today because I ate too much of it up there. Plain rice. Rice for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

Kate (25:19)
Was there anything on

Are you happy that they closed down institutions like this?

Edwina (25:27)
Yes. Why? I was happy. They're not there anymore. And people don't have to be in a place like that anymore. They've done away with them. But was too late for me to have done away with them a long time ago. I wish I had a big sister to talk to, like they got now. They got big sisters, big brothers. I wish they had that when I was growing up.

Kate (25:54)
Edwina is talking about Big Brothers, Big Sisters of America, which is a program that's been around for a century and a quarter. started in 1904 when a New York City court clerk named Ernest Coulter was seeing more and more boys coming through his courtroom. And so he realized that having mentors and adults could help a lot of at-risk youth stay out of trouble.

And around the same time, there was a group called Ladies of Charity who were befriending girls who had gone through the New York Children's Court and they would later become Catholic Big Sisters. And then in 1977, everybody joined together and they formed Big Brothers Big Sisters of America, joining forces with 357 different agencies, started mentoring all kinds of kids, including kids with disabilities. And unfortunately,

Edwina was not able to take advantage of those programs while she was in school. Yeah, that would have been nice. Yeah. You were like really on your own, Edwina. It seems like you were all by yourself.

Edwina (26:54)
They didn't have that.

Yeah, I was.

Kate (27:01)
I must be really hard for a little kid just trying to figure out how to survive in a situation like that. I'm glad you tried to run away. I'm surprised you didn't run away more than one time. I mean, you've done amazingly well now. when you got out, when you went independent, where were you working after you got out and you lived by yourself?

Edwina (27:06)
Yeah, it was tough.

Yeah, I'm so proud.

I worked at the station up on Harrison Avenue. I got hurt up there too. Somebody, some nuthead, let the guard up, let the blade, let the machine run and my finger went right through the machine. I almost lost my finger.

Kate (27:29)
house.

Which finger? Let me see.

Edwina (27:44)
This one here, I almost lost this one. Yes, it's got a little scar right there too. He had to rush me to the emergency room. I had take me to the emergency room and hold my hand up. I almost lost my finger.

Kate (27:46)
It's got a little bend in it.

So this was also piecework you were doing? Mm-hmm. What were you putting together?

Edwina (28:02)
Cut clothes into rags. That's how I got hurt. When I got finished there, I went to work at a restaurant. Well, see, when I came home, my cousin went to Goodwill. That's what I was supposed to be assigned to. But somehow my papers got messed up. They put Star Center on there. I wasn't going to Goodwill instead. I had a job. Star Center gave me a job. I went to get a job.

We'll start with job

Kate (28:34)
How was that? Did you enjoy that?

Edwina (28:36)
Yeah, it was alright. It was fun. was good job. Pay you more. Then I went to work at Walmart for eight years. Mostly working on the clothes, putting the clothes back on the hangers, stuff like that. Then they had me do the bathrooms. I had to six bathrooms, men and women's. And I had to wipe down the freezers, had to wipe them down.

Kate (28:47)
What'd you do at Walmart?

Edwina (29:06)
I made one mistake, my boss fired me. I threw some glasses away, glasses like this away, and then realized it. They didn't tell me what to do with them, just, my boss didn't like me in the first place, so he fired me.

Kate (29:08)
What was the mistake?

I'm sorry about that. That's a bummer. I mean, did you like working there at Walmart?

Edwina (29:28)
Yeah, I did. I had two nice bosses, but this one, this third one, when the other two left, this one came. He didn't like me. He had it in for me. And as Mark said, don't feel bad. He didn't like anybody. He probably didn't like himself either, because they got rid of him. After he fired me, they got rid of him.

Kate (29:37)
How do you know he didn't like you? ⁓

hate it when someone fires you and then the minute you're fired, they get fired and you're like, see, I was not the problem. Exactly. He was the problem.

Edwina (29:58)
It was him. He was the problem.

They got rid of him. He didn't get fired, but he went to another Walmart. They got rid of him.

Kate (30:09)
I so after Walmart, where'd you work? Okay, what'd you do there? I've been to the YMCA. That's the one with it. It's a swimming pool, right?

Edwina (30:11)
One to the YMCA. ⁓

Yeah, yeah. then, well, then, well we had a man, we had a man boss. The girls, the other girls was doing what they felt like doing. Standing around talking to the other, to the residents. They was talking to them instead of doing the work. I was doing all the work. So when my boss retired and we had a woman come in, I told her what they was doing and the woman was watching them. She took me out and made them do, made them do the work.

She took me out put me in the exercise room. I was cleaning that up while they was in the women's locker.

Kate (30:58)
See that's fantastic I love that you stood up for yourself and just told her what was what.

Edwina (31:02)
Yeah, they couldn't just stand around talking, because they know a guy couldn't come in in a women's locker room. I was doing all the work, but they were standing around talking.

Kate (31:11)
Is that the last job you ever had?

Edwina (31:13)
⁓ Well, I worked at two restaurants. I worked at the zoo for three months. The dining room area.

Kate (31:19)
Zoo? That must have been amazing. What did you do with the

So you were mostly like cleaning and sorting? that mostly what you were doing at the different places? You must have gotten really good at that. yeah. What is that?

Edwina (31:29)
Yeah!

I did have an boyfriend after, but it didn't last long.

Kate (31:37)
Okay, tell me about your boyfriend.

Edwina (31:39)
He was a tall guy. I can't remember his name, but I went out with him. I had two boyfriends up there. then had one when I came to Cincinnati, I had one. But it didn't work out between him, me, and him. I was going with him when I was at last. He wanted to get me pregnant, and I told him no. Not until I got married. So we broke up. He got somebody else pregnant. Wasn't me.

Kate (32:09)
You were not in the mood to get pregnant.

Edwina (32:11)
I want to get married first before I try to do that.

Kate (32:15)
Of of course. So now that you're in Cincinnati, like what are some of the, where are some of the places you've worked and hung out and stuff?

Edwina (32:22)
grocery store on Wednesdays. Then we go out, then we get, I get all like this, put away, go back out again. We go shopping or something like that. Menards.

Kate (32:34)
All right, Menards. ⁓

Edwina (32:36)
We

go there, we go to Donald Jones, do like that.

Kate (32:40)
You like to shop, Edwina. You're a shopper, it seems like.

Edwina (32:43)
I get a few things.

Kate (32:46)
So we're going to wrap up in a minute, but I just want to like take one more look back. if you, know, what are some, can you tell me some of the best memories you have in your life? Anything could be a Christmas, could be a vacation, could be going to the store, whatever you like. What are some of your best memories?

Edwina (33:03)
I love to go to Smokey Mountains. I went there with my mom and my sister. We went to the Smokey Mountains. It was in probably my middle 20s maybe. We went to the Smokey Mountains. It was fun. We had a lot of shops around there. They had Dollywood down and we went to Dollywood. We took a tour bus up to the mountains. ⁓ something happened.

Kate (33:10)
How old were you?

What was that? And what was it like?

Edwina (33:32)
Not Dolly Parton? Well, no, not really, but we went to Dollywood. Wow. Sandy loved roller coasters. We went to Kings Island. Me and Sandy went to Kings Island. We stayed up there for two weeks. Four days. mean four days. went to... She took us up to Kings Island. We stayed in a hotel up there. When we moved at the YMCA, she did a terrible thing to me.

Kate (33:32)
for.

That's amazing.

Edwina (33:59)
She turned everybody against me. Nobody was sitting with me at lunchtime. And I went and told D. Lee about it. She got on all of them, including Sandy. She had apologized to me for what she did.

Kate (34:13)
Something

she did to you a lot. ⁓

Edwina (34:16)
No, was the first time.

Kate (34:17)
Tell me more about Sandy. That's your sister? No. She's like your best friend?

Edwina (34:20)
a friend.

At the time she, when she did that, no. I got mad at her because she had no right doing that to me. It made me, it kind of hurt me. Yeah. Well know I was sitting there, sitting with me at lunchtime, turned everybody against me. No, I didn't tell her, I told Lee and Lee got on them about that. They all had trouble.

Kate (34:40)
Did it hurt you?

Who's late?

Edwina (34:49)
My boss got on all of them. Well, I had two of them, but on Montana Avenue. We got into it and we just like went to our own. Then we got to our own apartment site. I didn't have no more roommates after that.

Kate (34:50)
Have a room.

Did you like having roommates?

Edwina (35:07)
really

because it might be too much of not really. I like have my own place where I was at.

Kate (35:16)
Yeah, I understand that. Did you have any privacy when you were at Columbus?

Edwina (35:21)
Nope, didn't have no

privacy at all. What do mean? Just didn't have any privacy. Everybody was there.

Kate (35:27)
just really, you know what, I'm just like, so curious about what it felt like sitting in the cafeteria, what it smelled like and like what it was like to look around. Like what was that?

Edwina (35:38)
It wasn't easy, I tell you that much. It was hard. It was hard. Didn't like being up there, being away from my family. Not have nobody come up to see that. I was lonely out there. Didn't have anybody around.

Kate (35:54)
And did you like talk about it with the other kids? Did you guys talk about this together? No.

Edwina (35:59)
I don't think we did. I don't think I did, because it would be too hurtful if I did.

Kate (36:06)
How did you pass the days? mean, did you talk? Did you have a stuffed animal or talk to yourself?

Edwina (36:10)
No, I didn't have a stuffed animal, no. Didn't have no animals up there. I asked God why was I put up there. I asked Him. I cried every night and I prayed to Him. I asked God, was I put up here? I don't know, I never got an answer.

Kate (36:26)
Were like the did they give you clothes? Yeah, got clothes up there. Yeah. was it your own clothes?

Edwina (36:30)
My own clothes. They gave me clothes but they had your name on them. Like pants, know, tops, shorts.

Kate (36:39)
Was everybody wearing the same thing or was it like different everybody?

Edwina (36:43)
Definitely everybody wears a sergeant. No uniform.

Kate (36:45)
clothes like everybody had.

What about like towels and sheets? Were they nice? Were they scratchy?

Edwina (36:51)
Nice,

I mean, it was nice to sleep on. guess the towel was all right. Wasn't yours though. Nope, none of them was mine.

Kate (37:00)
Nothing was yours, right?

And like in the shower, you by yourself or you in a group shower?

Edwina (37:06)
By

myself, I think we have showers all along there, but you have walls in between them.

Kate (37:12)
Was it like a room full of showers? And then you went into your...

Edwina (37:17)
Yeah, think so. think so. have bathrooms all along there, but you had to go to close the door behind.

Kate (37:25)
Did you ever feel scared of any of the other kids that were in there?

Edwina (37:28)
I probably felt the same way they probably felt. Why was I up there too? They probably felt like I did.

Kate (37:36)
You guys know none of them you ever stayed in touch with or did you?

Edwina (37:39)
No, never say them touch one. I think that's it. ⁓

Kate (37:44)
very much. It was really great talking to you Edwina and getting to know you a little bit today.

Edwina (37:48)
It

was good talking to you too.

Living with a disability, the story of us, the story of me.

Never fade away, never fade away.

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